What to choose for automation of small business management?

The issue is certainly not new but, in General, the essence is this:

There is a commercial organization. Engaged in sales and procurement, services, production in the long term lease. It has four branches of directions. Office in Excel, the "organizer" on paper stickers, something we expect/draw programs, but there is no automation in terms of what to find the transaction/receipt must be gutting folders-folders for a particular month. Also no visible activity of sales managers, not tied production hall with office, there are additional remote office which is controlled by team view'rum, the purchasing Department fills the customer base again in Excel, the foreman fills a work brigade there, in General, all rests in the fact that we need tools to automate all of this.
Responsible for it all, I, as administrator rights, and last week I stormed Google; pounds of information, picking different crm from Amo to битрикса24 and "megaplan", I do not understand the root of evil, what where how and where to tie that all worked like a Swiss watch, you know what I mean)
Intellectually I understand that it is necessary to set 1s, but which edition, cloud or box, and which crm to choose based on this or Vice versa crm first, and then to integrate 1C, generally pot my pozabudet specifically, help the Council comrades, someone took the stage and learned a few things, your opinion is important, it is desirable detailed and competent. Thanks in advance
July 2nd 19 at 17:05
7 answers
July 2nd 19 at 17:07
From the heart and soul suggest Srul this topic.
As I understand it, You - the admin, who gave this happiness.

The problem is that the task was set as usual, but the worst follows: "typographist, automate everything... no Money, but we need to WOW".

Briefly the case is this:
1. Need analyst. Who will disassemble and describe how you arranged the process, gather requirements for new systems-organization and the like.
2. Need a consultant-Advisor-expert (preferably several). He can see the happiness that was given by an analyst and tell the direction (for example, as Konstantin Nakibovich wrote above). Several need in order to neutralize tonalnosti thinking (and it is almost all).
3. The right integrator. This time figuratively, because here it is possible to write off and PM-a, and progserv and managerov. They all implement, implement, finished with a file, make instructions and all that.

Well... let's Say p. 2 is more or less possible to override intuition, Gillingham, totteringham and the like.

Well... let's Say n. 3 will be supplied by the seller.

But actually the first paragraph is the Foundation. Nakosyachil everything goes down the drain, if not collapse.

Your boss wants a small force to tackle a big question and that's understandable. We all want cheap, buy quality car comfortable (shoes-refrigerator-home...). But this does not happen.

Most likely you think there is some magic software (preferably free) that will install and come happiness. But nifiga. You will either have to pull the owl on the globe - that is to say to adjust the business under the program do anything for themselves.

You are very difficult because the head usually will not say "miracles do not happen". Something that will automate the purchase-sales, service, production and rental at the same time? Well, well... You will show some cloud harvester the same type of AMO, "Megaplan" or something and you will follow their tracks.

Another option is to find zanedorogo provider developer, you have something to sell that will "fully meet TK" (they do it will be to write, right?) withdraw money and put something absurd.

You pros and You to imagine simply that the software is not magic. Well, not to the choice of the house to be "home for a large family to one floor to rent, somewhere to store money for seasonal tires, a couple of rooms left in the pizzeria and..." Need a project reference to the location, take into account that there is electricity, gas, transport accessibility and a bunch of stuff. It's a big job.

Continuing the analogy - the cloud harvester is an opportunity for you to enter in a hangar with walls, which take into account the interests of the spherical vacuum, the majority of businessmen, and razrabotannogo is to cook a bunch of several railway containers and decorate the clapboard.
Thank you for the detailed response, well, let's say if competently carry out Analytics, it is possible to come down to choosing a product that will not have finished their own? Or if you finished it with minimal cost "brain time". Understand that want too much and "cheap", but still, not a Corporation, not the enterprise of a large scale, if roughly now all fits on paper/in Excel, there is an option to establish an automated process all of this? - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:10
: minimum cost avtomatiziruete typical processes. A step to the side and now require modification. - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:13
: A competent analyst - is the third case. Well, if by "case" to imply something deliberate and slightly variable.

Why specify? Well, because I saw the situation analyst is working, then turn on development/implementation/training/operation. And here something not so... well-Implemented? Well, let's say, okay. Developed? Too. And taught? Yes, of course! Who screwed up? And the analyst of course!!! But in reality - he worked in a different reality - from his work a year later, the company is buy-sell engaged in services and rentals and all - new introductory skewed.

However, you do not need platforms. The probability that your business has reference to the specific software is nonzero. However, negligible.

What would you recommend - just to tell the boss that the miracle is still there. Cakes should bake the pastry. That is, these Excel - it's wonderful. If you only need to move the same in a single space - it's very simple. Database (e.g., SQL) and some software that will work with it. You can write your own. However, programmer and at least the Manager of this project.

The most important thing to start is to decide what you actually want. The same thing now, but in one place? Or something else? Well and steer there.

And I advise you not to do yourself. Yes, a new experience, a new option in the summary, but... the Probability of failure extremely high in the case of the jamb You'll certainly be extreme. Will do it ourselves - and will have to code yourself, and test and debajit and to Refine and to think that to respond to users who will grumble "all buggy BL#! in Excel it was better..." - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:16
: Thank you, I think... - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:19
> answer to users that will grumble
It grunts can not care if the user is on your side and understands the difficulties of the transition period (and better - very actively participate in it). I have a similar project was led by the Treasurer - moaning users drifted just TK for improvement.
If the company wants someone waved a magic wand - it is better to dismiss her at once! ;) - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:22
: Have YOU read the beginning? A small, dynamic company, successful and firmly occupied the three niches and planning to take fourth, instructs the sysadmin to choose the automation solution. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:25
: you'll laugh, but I, after about the same start and too much ready, and provided a couple of companies (within the same holding company) samopisnye mini-CRM, it provides their needs. However, both accounting firms is not the main division. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:28
I will not, I myself did so. The head-then what? He has a regular wizard, just make a wish. Even tales do not teach anything, because no one desires formulated.

Free CRM normal quality - not a myth, they are. I touched the Sugar Suite (essentially the same) - very sensibly, and for ordinary purposes are suitable.

But the problem is that certainly in the case of anything and remember You... "is Buggy? It? Well, it's one lame job was..." or "John, come here... Again, your program does not work..." - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:31
: is there magic in the fact that not the technical side of the CRM implementation was done by someone from the manual. First, knowing a business process "from above", and second, mediating between the programmer and the users.
If something in the system is not so high is not raised openly, the authorities will have to criticize ;) is Formed claims, are filtered if they are in the case - embodied in the proposals for revision. Normal feedback, without any exacerbations.

Well, maybe I'm so lucky - frankly boorish customer feedback about the tools of my production did not have to never. Despite the fact that all employees use them every day. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:34
: You probably have a head versed in Analytics. Or they pretended that he knows. Generally companies try to take this functionality outside just so the boss no one can say that all day someone rides the noodle and the only thing he's actually doing - he signs a piece of paper.

Non-technical part is suitable for the description of BP, here is true. But for TK it would be better to understand a little bit. However, You, like, all know that. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:37
: for Analytics not undertake to judge. But the advantage of the authoritative positions - even in the presence of excess degrees of freedom in space "as it is organized - how it should be organized - how it will be organized after the implementation".
External analysts have much more limited capabilities. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:40
: Yes and no. In theory, all right. However, I often see the owner of the company didn't know how it works there on a low level. And even more do not know how to Express it in notation. Exception - when a man versed in BP, proper description, and so on. And Yes, this is usually the exception is.

Take conditional firm, which employs the default.
What is there? Probably some owner-businessman. 3-4 3-4 indicate the direction of his Deputy plus Buhi, a lawyer (hardly competent), system administrator and ordinary workers. A total of 20-30 people, if not a small production/storage/heap drove/etc.

Who's on it? The owner? Hardly. A person must follow to avoid being wiped from the business. The head of one of the directions? Well, he will highlight his own... Buhi? A lawyer? Guard? /Secretary?

In any case, if this is not the first person or his Deputy on many issues - it will be sent to, dynamite and other. You're just lucky. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:43
: well we have more people, and the Treasurer has sufficient authority, sufficient education, adequate desire...
In the other case a very small Piroska, up to 10 people, but there the owner knew what he wanted.
Perhaps, really lucky in both cases. But I doubt that in other cases the introduction of automation in General will have a positive outcome ;) - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:46
10 people? Not the scale. With 10 people the owner can know not only the functionality and all, but when is the birthday of their husbands/wives. On the other hand when the scale cannot be clearly described business processes - Leh does everything for logistics, Tanya accountant and received calls etc.

In General, the decision to automate ideologically must be accompanied by an understanding of the functionality of individuals and plans for development (or scaling) of the business. The complex of household services automation, for example, what is not needed. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:49
: no, the automation still helps, regardless of the number of employees. Worse than the chaos and gag, still can not be.
Specifically the friend of small firms need not be afraid of turnover - the firm is engaged in advertising, managers came and went. He could look at their efficiency, not sitting on them all day, and training new employees was limited to those three or four pages of CRM, which was automatically part of their job. One time he even do without the office continued to work, is this not suffering... - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:52
did the CRM and ERP are not the same. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:55
when they are deployed across the Corporation - Yes, of course. And when it's a small business and all the tasks are built as "and you can do so here, the officer did his job in a way that reflected on the website" - the differences are lubricated. An employee may be an economist, Buch materials, advertising Manager, foreman shifts - if their work is reduced to one base, how to call the system that provides access to it - it doesn't matter. If only worked ;) - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:58
July 2nd 19 at 17:09
In your case, I would choose the design of the system 1C from scratch.
Here the development system for the company with a bunch hotelok, distributed employees, etc.
So and editors what to choose? Honestly, with the 1s faced a very superficial, hence these questions - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:12
if we are talking about writing from scratch, neither a revision is not necessary. Only the 1C: Enterprise platform. - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:15
: Thanks for the reply - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:18
: please. If you have questions - my contacts in the profile. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:21
: can I somehow briefly about the difference between developing on 1C Platform and automation from scratch on the bare LAMP? Just a second option I good idea and in the first (for automation) I suspect the same combat platform as much benefit from it. I'm wrong?

TS, of course, is engaged in trade, but "cash in Excel" shows that the volume of this trade is not so great... - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:24
: Okay, thank you - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:27
: Well the difference is simple and obvious -
1C is a platform for automating accounting tasks.
LAMP is a set of programs for the organization the web server.
The difference is that on the platform 1C can be something to develop, and the LAMP cannot be developed, because it is not for development. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:30
: "Terminological disputes, comrades!" As if you didn't understand what I meant. The usual choice - whether to solve the problem "establish trade" or it will be easier to solve it in the shed with shit and sticks (and in fact generally known as comfortable and durable are the designs of the latter type).
Each individual small business has a bunch of their nuances that will have to work under anything. Whether base, which gives 1S to reduce design time due to ready-made solutions, or to increase at the expense of what the finished require these solutions to specific (and often primitive) tasks - that is the question.
1C because I don't nyhuse in principle, it would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who really works on this topic. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:33
: interestingly, a lot of LAMP for the development, CADENT? - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:36
: Well I understand you are curious what is better to develop the accounting system 1C, or to the popular programming language. So?

Advantages of 1C - faster to develop, a familiar interface for users, support is available..
Cons - not free, limited to the platform.

The benefits of developing on the net JAPANESE - flexibility, dissociating from the vendor.
Cons - development time, non-standard interface, difficult to support.

It is in General and in the specific case it is necessary to look.

Generally most of the benefits of 1C is not concentrated in the platform, and in specific configurations.
1C is good because for most tasks there are ready-made standard solution - put and play, and these decisions are supported.
And in most cases they are used either without modifications or with minimal modifications.

And the decision to develop on 1C suggests itself - when you trade and accounting in 1C, to sculpt another kind of accounting system on something else more expensive. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:39
: Use to develop or are developing on the LAMP?
I use a hammer for construction for many years, but nevertheless maintain - build on the hammer is impossible. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:42
: thanks for the reply.
However, let's say, the advantages of 1C-Bitrix seems to be (declared) the same, but in practice it turns out that constantly fighting the urge to throw him the fuck and do the same thing easier, more logical...
And TC, as stated in the question, trade and accounting in 1C. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:45
: Well here is even more difficult. You just have to decide on which 1s we're talking about.
Generally 1C is a trademark of the same company which is engaged in the development and distribution of software.
Ie it is developing games, accounting systems, web engines, sells third-party programs.

As 1C is the name of the platform for the development of accounting systems.

So - Bitrix is a web engine developed by a company, can't remember what, and then the company was bought by 1C, and sells under its brand.

To 1C Bitrix, any side is not true at all with it not connected.
This is just one product of many offered by the company.

And about the desire to throw the fuck Bitrix - it seems to have all who used it.
Because there is such crap heaped up...
And money please they're sickly.

And about the fact that declared the vehicle - they do not understand that what is done and what the result should be.
Probably so conceived :) - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:48
Constantine, in fact, already have constitutional: the platform of 1C Enterprise.
And TC are all made on the knee, he also wrote... ;) - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:51
Yes, but he did not write the main thing - what exactly he wants to do, what tasks the system must solve, what's not to like in the current solution.
You can't just take to automate something, not knowing how that something works and what you need to solve this automation.

Ie, if talking about automating business
1) it is Necessary to study the current business processes - what is being done and how.
2) Knowing business processes is already possible to understand what you can automate and make a list of requirements for the automation system.
3)After that, you can actually choose what to automate all this - watch-the-shelf solutions to estimate the cost of developing on different platforms, if you can't find ready-made solutions, to assess, to estimate the cost of implementation and subsequent operation.

If the company sells, produces - at 1C is, for such purposes, the configuration of the UPP - production enterprise management.
You can consider it.
How she comes to their business processes, how much it will cost, its implementation, etc. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:54
however, the city enterprise is here to stay. And evaluation, how it will fit in the zero phase is reduced to "finger-to-nose and hope for the execution of the marketing promises."

And, working with shit and sticks, you can move in small steps, evaluating the success of each after the fact (fairly quick) run. Starting from the information acsalaska those files to a normal store with normal access and adding to the wishlist as they are aging.

However, I already have the sad experience of how a similar system when changing the paradigm of business has been before the fact accumulating technical debt - if the problem is solved on the go - any serious rewriting system. I don't know whether a similar case will be able to soften the platform. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:57
: To move in small steps need
1)Have a team - by the way where will they develop? Developer in Excel, plus a developer in php, plus a couple of C# developers. So? Or still it is necessary to first globally to decide how and where to move.
2)Need people who actually will see the whole picture, and decide what you want to automate in the first place, and that he did not need to, because it does. And this man is clearly not the admin.

The admin only sees a small area he can't see the full picture, don't know what exactly prevents to make money of the organization, and what you can do to score, because it is not critical, it does not manage money, does not know the budget, etc.
Ie is the task of the Manager, not the administrator. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:00
: you theorize. I speak from experience of solving such problems. One programmer, Excel in the furnace at once, sharp not to worry. Looking for a small, feasible scope of work - carry out, repeat. Of course, without active participation in this leadership "do not track and start", but when working together, nothing is impossible. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:03
> I use a hammer for construction for many years, but nevertheless maintain - build on the hammer is impossible.
And what are you building? - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:06
No way.
That's why Excel in the furnace? I have a friend of 14 years in Excel working.
He got sick of advisers go to 1s - and why should he go and pay, if it all works and everything is happy.
Major wholesaler of knitwear in the region.
Switched to 1s last year because they had bought a business in a different direction and have it all brought together.

A search for scope of work, and then another, and develop - for small scope of work generally there are ready solutions, it is much cheaper to build than your bike. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:09
: On the foundations of the timber building system. - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:12
: so I do not propose to change Excel to 1C, I suggest it just to throw. No matter how he liked your friend, what a small business is done in Excel to organize your business is a dead - end forms of a perverted life.
A small scope of work in the first place refers to the analysis of the entire farm in Excel and transfer it into the normal calculation and storing results in the database, if required. With proper access and calculation data. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:15
: The question usually is not whether to like it or not. Excel is not a girl to like.
The only question is whether it solves the current problems or not, whether to work or not.
If in this particular case, it solves all the problems - why something to change?
If does not solve problems, work uncomfortable - then you have to change. That's all. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:18
so ekselevskoy a file, which is going on "calculate" to read which can only legwork in cells, and available equestrian and Hiking that on reading that on record - sooner or later creates more problems than it solves. I just such "solutions" and put in order, they say. - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:21
: Well, why not.
There's also VBA, beautiful shape input buttons, print consignment notes and invoices.
Client - wandered around the exhibition hall, wrote in his notebook the code of goods and the number and gave it to the Manager.
No running on the cell Manager and driving the item number - the item is added to the document.
And pictures of the item shows all of the people.
Making one customer at the register not more than three minutes.
Then the printer spits out a pack of relevant papers and the customer stomps out of the showroom to the warehouse and waits for two hours until the storekeepers will gather the order and the movers will peretekut him in the car.
A day - 20 to 30 customers max.
Most of them are permanent and work on pre-order - ie pre-sent ekselevskoy a file stamped with a number near the desired position.

Just fit the business model - solves all problems and nothing more. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:24
: solves all problems, except those that appear when you need to change something. To put a second counter, for example ;)
No, far be it from me to advise in this case to change something, until it was necessary. Works - do not touch. - herman90 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:27
Any solution is not perfect and serious changes can't handle.
Even in this case, one office was not loaded. So worked.

I in any case do not call to do in Excel, but do not rule out that in some areas it is quite justified - if you can do simple, why complicate it?

By the way communicated with foreign businessmen in Serbia, the us, Turkey, many people use just Excel. - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:30
I mentioned above about the popularity and reliability of the solutions from shit and sticks.
Excel - a bright representative of this technology ;) - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:33
July 2nd 19 at 17:11
To select the integrator any CRM/ERP, etc.
July 2nd 19 at 17:13
Box solution is not prokanaet. Make no mistake №1 - do not get fooled by advertising out-of-box solutions. Popadalovo be specific. It is possible to dispute.

Uniquely custom solutions and pre-Analytics, but these issues are no separate funding is not solved. The price is around $5k, 1-2 months. If it is less, see paragraph above.

Intellectually I understand that it is necessary to set 1s

In the furnace. Popadalovo be specific...
1-2 months in my practice is not enough. Although $5k... Hmm... Analyst, the remote writer, expert in the wings... I guess that's one way.

But at 1C You should not. Seriously. Not many solutions to the integrator to send JO to find a replacement without any problems. From a potentially budget - 1S completely. Then all sorts of Terracotta, then SAP. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:16
: no one alive glanders integrator :) - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:19
July 2nd 19 at 17:15
Perhaps, you do to yourself the question complicated. Quite correct answer would be "Everything (well, almost all, actually) use a 1C, but sometimes it is necessary to finalize the scope and cost of completion varies from a few thousand to several million rkba. Be able to evaluate experts on the implementation of 1C"
There is a difference between "unable to assess" and "can you name the minimum price of working solutions."
Introduce the 1C, I suspect, more like millions, than thousands ;) - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:18
Of course, appreciate they are including on the basis of their nefarious Mercantile interests.
The idea is that the 1C will NOT be able to assess logically the same? - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:21
the idea that specialists of 1C in principle do not consider any other alternatives. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:24
That's another question. If you have more or less justified feeling that you'll Product, then evaluate how it will suit you, will be able specialist Produktach.
And you can do to try and Product, and the Product, and even 1C, and the results to select something or stay in that stuck.
In 90+% of cases for tasks such as you describe, alternatives 1C probably not , but perhaps you have something special, but remotely it is not defined. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:27
> there is more or less justified feeling that you are more suited
Where? TC does not know what to grab, what sort of "reasonable feeling"?

> alternatives 1C probably not
To clarify: "rather does not apply" because trying to solve such problems, the people running for... sellers of 1C, all of a sudden! - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:30
And you can offer an alternative direction to escape Trailer hitch? - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:33
: Of course love. In the same way as You like. You Commerce, so the money is there. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:36
: if you want to think and do everything for him - then Yes, it Prodavam. If you find the courage to at least TK to write independently (in conjunction with supervision of course) - open alternatives.

: I'm sorry that I love - and with a fright I "is comers"? - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:39
: With the fact that this is a task for the automation of business activities. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:42
: so what are the alternatives open to you when the TK? - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:45
work under this TOR, for example, a web Studio. Without bending under 1C, which then, I suspect, will determine all the future of IT in this office: that cannot be, and that can be - and how much. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:48
: do you really think what you refer to "web Studio" to automate what is described Tsome, will cost a acceptable finances? - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:51
: alternative typically allows at least to compare the finances that you want - Studio, freelancers, 1S-Niki. To outline the horizon, to the point of origin. Is it bad?
1S-nikam also TK should, God forbid, they will write... - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:54
: Tsome formed a quite distinct (though clearly incomplete) brief. Can estimate how much your favorite "web-Studio" will manage the implementation? At least with an accuracy of +/- 300%?
Task list
Transactions (full cycle, from pre-sale to closing, including maintaining a customer base)
Payments (cash, Bank transfer, with reference to the transactions and reports)
The movement of goods and materials (full cycle, from ordering to the calculation, when copying to production)
Outfits for teams - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:57
: I can't. I have loved the Studio ;(
And so, on your list - don't know what is meant by "cash" (I have not worked with the accounting Department), but the rest did. Part for one firm for another. And monitoring the orders and control of the working time sheet (with payroll) on these data.
I understand that what I was doing - not universal, as in 1C. But those in works, it is ideal under them were written... - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:00
OK lets rate without "Cash" - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:03
and so I can't. I'm not a freelancer, work on the clock and to count the money, alas, is not accustomed.
But given that any technology that is not owned by any PHP-junior, I didn't use - price should not be exorbitant, I think.
Maybe, of course, I'm wrong. And if you highlight that part of my wages that went into this work, you get a really big amount, more than in 1C + integrations its spices. But TS seems to be also works, gets paid and he's willing to pay her for this work too. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:06
: ie alternatives as it is, but they seem to be in the money are not measured, you can try, it will cost not millions, but how many tens or hundreds tyrov - what's the difference, most importantly, not 1C? - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:09
in General, summing up: if you want to talk business matter, it would be nice to learn how to evaluate the proposed he (business) results and bablu, and time.
But to spend all their s/n, throwing useless comments in the Toaster, many do not mind - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:12
: you are tired of this conversation and you want to finish?
You can just say it to be rude is not necessary.
You said that there is no alternative - I was told about it.
Yes, my story is not a commercial offer, but I'm not the only programmer in the world.
Sorry for your wasted time. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:15
: tired of me 10 comments ago.
You don't offer an alternative.
You talk about spherical web Studio in the vacuum of money.
Alternative should be evaluated for time/money if there is no assessment, it is, sorry, pick the term.
If you are ready to implement a long brief, but free, for example - well, it is possible to try, although "long" must be evaluated. - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:18
: I do not offer, I just confirmed.
Here and the site seems to be inappropriate to have something to offer for specific time and money - not market well.
All my mnogabukav in this thread - about the fact that going with such a specification for the exchange (or implementing it yourself), not necessarily restricted solutions, renowned for his advertising campaigns. You can do without them. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:21
> You can do without them
Again, this is about the spherical alternative in your domestic vacuum.
Just tell us justified (budgets and deadlines), how can we do without them? Just show at least about sane, estimated option.
If you think that the "exchange" TSU would say something sane just give a link to such a proposal on the "exchange" - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:24
: only if you show me the stock exchange, where the performers are the first to offer to do something...
I heard they usually announce the customer wishlist, and he has called budgets and deadlines. Kvantum satis. - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:27
: let's try first?
You're saying that the TSA are the alternatives described, except 1C? Is that right?
If not true, what about you?
If it is - simply show the evaluated alternative. If you can't, your.. Umm. the argument that there are alternatives, cost nothing, right? - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:30
: alternative - CRM. The use of web technologies, not tied to 1C.
It will be finished one of the existing solutions or write a new how long and how much - the question to the contractor. As, however, and in the case of a decision on 1C. - herman90 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:33
: I'm sorry, your answer is "alternative - CRM" virtually indistinguishable from "the alternative".
And even worse, because you do not understand what "cash", instead of, before to recommend "alternatives" to study the subject, just ignore this aspect.
Well, oke - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:36
well, if you do not mind that I am not acquainted with what is meant by the term "cashier", successfully embodied the rest of your list - okay, consider me ignorant ;) - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:39
: so don't tell them about "web Studio" show what you brought, well I hat to eat will be removed - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:42
to dump on Github domestic product, the rights to which belong to my employer? It would be good even with current database... - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:45
well, that is, dwell - TSU, you have nothing to offer. The main thing that he 1S not looked? - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:48
: i.e., dwell - the main thing that he was looking not only at 1C. - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:51
: and what else? - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:54
: shorten cycles?
Let's say you respond to this remark, you will have the last word, and phallometry use some other time. - earl.Weissnat commented on July 2nd 19 at 18:57
: of course, as I have already said that not too lazy to try again.
You say that there are alternatives, they won't show because the big secret.
Because the alternatives only exist in your imagination, and if they are, you just do not know about them. But they certainly have, because you believe in it, you want others to believe it. - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 19:00
July 2nd 19 at 17:17
The creation of normal system of internal document management is an internal project, which is given and the time and money.
1. Prepared workflow the movement of documents
2. Formalized requirements to BP of the future system in the form of a diagram
3. Coordinated all information and prepare the specification
4. Encoded.
Better - no one will do, and still more will not find.
In a small business can be in hell do not need document management.
Let's say you only want to create on the predefined parameters of the contract (multiple templates + client data), account (for known items), act (on them). It was stored on the server and can be printed out or corrected. Without workflow...
To create HTML on the server with a known text, stick it in CKEdit to edit, digest to PDF - seeds well. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:20
all this will make MS Office - tyrel_Kirlin commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:23
: I'm sorry, what MSO can do for six managers (only half of which sits in the office) by the total customer base sales total pieces of advertising space (on the basis of which, in fact, created contracts, invoices and acts), and their Directors, went to neighboring area?
Note: document remain as it is not needed. - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:26
: the MSO is integration between the applications within the entire ecosystem. Access, Note, etc. If briefly: it is possible to lead a simple CRM in MS Access, and customer responses (questionnaire Forms) and form some 2-3 document template (Word, Excel, etc.), PowerPoint presentations. - moses.Feen commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:29
: how much will cost all this meat (with a server that supports the ecosystem) for a firm of ten people?
As suitable (and safe) to use on-line and not on the intranet server?
In my example, the firm does not have admin from the word "quite". If something happens with the site, the Director will call me and I when you have time, see what happened. Not yet accounted for. With wine-server, which is sticking out base, so you can live? - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:32
: then Google-doks and forget about it) - Clement_Johnst commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:35
Google-doks have learned to substitute in the template details of the counterpart from the database? And to keep statistics of agents - number and result of calls today, the number of transactions per month?
Forget about all - Yes, the output :) - chelsea13 commented on July 2nd 19 at 17:38
July 2nd 19 at 17:19
But I do not share a universal love for the invention of bicycles. Especially in small business.
Model box solution, indeed, may not meet all of the nuances. But business performance is not a big deal. Enough has been automated 20% of operations that will help you save or earn additional money 80% of the money. The Pareto principle has not been canceled. All the rest have no significant impact on the business. Yes, it is necessary to do something still manually, with Excel, and that someone is still not comfortable. But people very quickly get used and cease to be soared about it. If satisfactory functinal and cost of ownership please note frequency of updates, flexibility, extensibility, capabilities, pairing, export/import information, data reliability, fault tolerance.
And another tip: Before you begin to automate, put things in order in your organization optimize business processes. Find out where you are losing money because of the lack of automation. And there is nothing more senseless than trying to automate chaos. However, many are doing just that.

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