Russian VAT on Upwork — hi, work in white?

We are writing to let you know that Upwork will begin collecting Value Added Tax (VAT) from freelancers and agencies who use Upwork in Russia.

The 20% tax will be applied only to Upwork service fees, not earnings from your clients.

Currently we are registering with the Russian government and will let you know when we start collecting VAT. No action is needed at this time.

Apparently, they will start to communicate with FNS.
As for me, to descend on the additional accrual of income tax will be easy.

Your opinion, gentlemen?
March 19th 20 at 08:26
8 answers
March 19th 20 at 08:28
Solution
Highly depends on the technical implementation and desires FNS to catch the freelancers.

In my view, by itself, the VAT Upwork'ohms does not mean that they will transmit data on the income of freelancers. They will be required to report their income. Although if you want one from the other to get quite real. This is the amount of money.

The fact that some of uncertain income test will be very easy, because Upwork will be required to report who bought his services (paid a Commission). And the only service on Upwork is the opportunity to earn.

I think for those who work in white, this news is only for the better. No more gophers tax and "tax on Google".
@YuriM1983, you mean the Agency agreement? Well, if you consider it, the hemorrhoids still a lot.
I'm working on is simple: how much indicated in the confirmation of services, many writing in Kadir. - yvette_Wate commented on March 19th 20 at 08:31
March 19th 20 at 08:30
Solution
I do not understand why delete a reply -> it does not violate anyone's laws.
If you don't make the money back in Russia, then you have no object of taxation. All you need is do NOT send money to Russian banks, and to send for example your map payoneer (which is outside Russian jurisdiction).
So do our rich and oligarchs and it is not a violation of the law. No taxes to pay don't need no complications with reporting.
That's just the point of all these dances.
You will pay a fee of Payoneer for transfers and conversion into rubles.
Money really is not removed, or also with the Commission.
Major purchase (car, house) you don't exercise.

The maximum tax for legalization is 6%. If your region is cheap the patent, then even less. It is inexpensive, if you have a steady income. - yvette_Wate commented on March 19th 20 at 08:33
Dada, I have a patent is cheaper than if I pioneer used - tatum.Fisher commented on March 19th 20 at 08:36
@yvette_Wate, payment by card without a fee (Commission paid services for the service, not the client).
if you want apwork in rubles to bring itself you have to convert, like a strange argument, maybe converting there far better than in the BEAC, for example)
About "legalization" - don't know time passed, it all ends with the complete squeezing of all juice.
Now 6, then 26, and then it turns out (as it is now in SP, even without any income and activities you have 30 thousand to pay in a year), I have the same rod twice to catch thanks)
the money necessary for spending by Russian jurisdiction and only in dollars - the only way to earn something and keep all other options - guaranteed loss of all savings within 3-5 years.
What kind of people is absolutely not exposed went, for 30 years, learned nothing, at least look like the same officials and rich people do. . . - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 08:39
payment by card without a fee (Commission paid services for the service, not the client).

Withdrawal with the Commission. Automatic conversion into rubles probably also at a very poor rate. Doubt that they rate of exchange or the CBR.

if you want apwork in rubles to bring itself you have to convert, like a strange argument, maybe converting there far better than in the BEAC, for example)

Sberbank one of the worst courses among banks. Bad argument.
The correct method: derive from $3,000 via Wire Transfer (fee $30 = 1%). Further, these dollars are changing into rubles on the climbs of the course either through the exchange or in the good Bank with the Commission of the order of 0.2-0.5% (not 3-4% as in an automatic conversion when you pay).

About "legalization" - don't know time passed, it all ends with the complete squeezing of all juice.
Now 6, then 26, and then it turns out (as in SP, even without any income and activities you have 30 thousand to pay in a year), I was the bait to catch not twice, thank you)

You can read more about juices? I work 3 years. Initially paid 6%(+1%), is now working for the patent and pay for everything 42к per year. If you have 30K in a year is a lot of money, then of course SP has nothing to say. So, a gig. Here and PayPal will fit any other way. - yvette_Wate commented on March 19th 20 at 08:42
@tatum.Fisher, good for you, can pay and sleep))))
and I'm not a patent issue, and I actually did not go and sleep I not worse) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 08:45
I work 3 years

read more about juices

it can be seen))))
well, not human, you'll know soon enough, as in Russia everything is arranged) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 08:48
Well, everyone ***cheat as he wants, what's the problem then?)
how would a fine of 75 to 100% of the money came to pioneer.
scans perpetra have pioneer too, without them the account is not rabotaet.
pfff, you want to be a criminal, please. In the era of automation to use Payoneer it's like sitting on a powder keg.. - tatum.Fisher commented on March 19th 20 at 08:51
@YuriM1983, conceptually rich that delaut, but only a few other (more expensive) schemes.
@tatum.Fisher what do you mean by criminal? the money earned abroad, had left them abroad, no laws are not violated. The rest of the lyrics, want to pay our officials - pay, I impose nobody. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 08:54
@Cecilia_Heathcote72If you are abroad 183 days no questions, pay taxes at the location.
All the questions have long been settled by international law.

If you have decided that you are the most cunning and found lasiecka... Hmm..
Well, all the crooks and criminals so probably about you.
Though the legal framework has acquainted you))

Or you supposedly want to be in the same country, work in another, and never pay taxes?)
Lol? :)

conceptually rich that delaut, but only a few other (more expensive) schemes.

Well so you're not rich, you're a criminal:) How would you feel justified :)
The next step which is the Fund of 40% per annum?) - tatum.Fisher commented on March 19th 20 at 08:57
To do this, the rich buy yachts to sail between jurisdictions. And you live 365/366 days a year in mother Russia, so pay no matter where the account is opened. Matter where you are "tax resident". - Charity98 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:00
@Charity98, apparently he thinks if you do as the rich man, he automatically becomes rich.

@Cecilia_Heathcote72, "conceptual" maybe they do, but as they say, the devil is in the details. While bringing to pioneer a penny, you're not interesting. For large amounts, the pioneer will not go. Not even due to the fact that under large amounts they may have other more reliable scheme.
Start earning at least 1 million a year, will be more profitable to pay the tax than to pay a Commission pioneer.

And the answer is deleted because it is wrong. That's "If you don't make the money back in Russia, then you have no object of the taxation" - complete garbage. You live in Russia, you are a tax resident must pay 13 percent of any income as an individual entity or place of IP/OOO, and pay another tax.
Keep the money in the account in a foreign Bank, by the way, are also illegal. You are obliged to inform the tax office about open you accounts in foreign banks.
https://journal.tinkoff.ru/amnistia-kapitala-dlya-... - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:03
@Eunice.Tow,
>Keep the money in the account in a foreign Bank, by the way, are also illegal.
>fine for 75-100% of revenues.
hehehe, Oh, scared, scared, Oh)
as a penalty the charge gathered?))))))))) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:06
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, suggest an article to read the link

But if the tax does not know about the account?

Likely to find out — sooner or later. In 2016, Russia acceded to the international agreement on the automatic exchange of financial information. 2018 FNS receives information on Bank accounts and deposits abroad. The first such exchange between Russia and other countries was held in September 2018.

Now Russia sends information in 62 countries and gets — 90. Agreement on bilateral data transfer is signed with Germany, France, China, popular offshore zones — Cyprus, Belize, Seychelles, British virgin Islands. The list is constantly updated.
- Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:09
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, but again, while you earn pennies, you're not interesting and can actually be more profitable not to pay taxes.
As soon as you start to earn good money, you will understand that the white to work cheaper. - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:12
Amuses me such rhetoric, which does not correspond with reality, and the reality is:
90% of big business, even with the participation of the state working through offshore companies, and "optimize" taxes.
And as soon as I start making "good money" is also going to work through offshore companies, now yet to "optimize" taxes.
There is a notion of a presumption of guilt until you prove that I'm breaking, I did not break. Mechanism to prove that a foreign account with my - does not exist. You can assume that he my for example, if I say that it is not, then prove otherwise is not possible, there is simply no mechanism as me to get the money) it's just a fantasy tax. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:15
@Cecilia_Heathcote72,
>Zabavlyaet me with such rhetoric
at school age all things seem funny

>90% of big business, even with the participation of the state working through offshore companies
from these statistics? mom said or something one of those "well, everyone knows that"?

>and "optimize" taxes.
the goal of almost any business - to make money. for example, I like SP can work on simplified taxation system under 7%, can work on the income-consumption and can buy the patent. Choosing the less expensive option and will optimization.
Or can I get another nationality, to open Yur.a person in another country where the tax burden will be less. But for me the "cost of citizenship" + "them a small percentage tax" will be much more expensive than "the cost of opening the UI in the Russian Federation" + "a large percentage of tax in the Russian Federation".
For large enterprises, the cost of opening legal.individuals will be negligible, and the savings on a smaller tax percentage on the contrary, significant.
Such optimization is something criminal.

>You can assume that he my for example, if I say that it is not, then prove otherwise is not possible
2018 FNS receives information on Bank accounts and deposits of citizens in some countries.

And again, until the account penny, you're not interesting (and that, with the current automation, and soon penny to penalize breach would be profitable). With an average income, it is better to work completely in white. Something to stir only makes sense at high rpm. - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:18
@Eunice.Tow, Yes it's a common figure, without official data from Rosstat for example (TK, they do not find)
this number POPs up regularly, while the one who believes, reasonably enough it shows in the examples.
https://echo.msk.ru/blog/abramovmd/888404-echo/
>SP can work on simplified taxation system under 7%
have you considered only the income tax, and we have a dozen taxes that you have to pay (e.g. UST) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:21
@Cecilia_Heathcote72,
>you find only the tax on profit
no. only 7%.
contributions if the pay is right, they are going to offset taxes and the final amount will be only 7% of all earned - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:24
@Eunice.Tow,
the final amount will be only 7% of all earned

Oh you're such a dreamer))))))))) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:27
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, which means the dreamer?
SP 2017 work, checking with the IRS every year.
Paid is 7%, now on the patent, pay significantly less. - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:30
Well, comments.
If you use the deduction will be 6%
If you earn less than 650 000. It is about. That is more than 6%. And exactly 6%.

Patent. There deductions can not be done.
But if we assume patent costs 30 000. 1 150 000 somewhere more profitable. All we need to calculate. - Kaia_Corw commented on March 19th 20 at 09:33
@Kaia_Corw, 6% is only on income up to 300 thousand over 300 need 1 more% to pay. Total for the year is 7 and a little less. But for simplicity, you can round up to 7.
Deductions on contributions Yes, in the patent can not be done. But for me fees+patent less than ~7% of income.

Generally, on tax in a personal account is there a calculator, where you can see how much tax you will need to pay at different incomes at different tax systems. He's not the most comfortable, but some estimate will be released.
But I'm not sure even that will convince. - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:36
@Eunice.Tow, 1% there, too, you can deduct. But we need to understand.

I think 7% for sleep is normal.
Though my partners do not work with physical persons, or are not profitable. - Kaia_Corw commented on March 19th 20 at 09:39
Odd you still worried about people with raznymi opinions. Their is a bunch, a huge ego and lack of understanding of the subject.
Their life itself will teach until they learn or until their myopia completely in my ass would not :( - tatum.Fisher commented on March 19th 20 at 09:42
@Eunice.Tow, the guy calls the tax on the simplified system of income tax and another reason drag ESN, which is already years 15 no. This shows his level. Just hammer on these commentators - Lea commented on March 19th 20 at 09:45
@tatum.Fisher, he wondered why his last answer is removed. The fact that he believes his opinion is correct, is nonsense. Too bad that his other bad advice true thought.

@Lea, I'm bored, have the time, why would you bother?) - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 09:48
@Lea, you see what my situation can afford not to understand as it is now called the compulsory payments to pension Fund, medical and social fear. And keep track of what changes to taxes on profits, any options I need to pay VAT in any no where I have sales tax where I have to pay on profits, where can patetic to use, and where not, what you need spravochki for payment in a simplified form, which is "simplified" in name only)))
Very happy for all the experts who know)
Want to pay - pay.
I'm about 10 years how to live without all this, sorry not to understand, not the expert)))) I said my "bad" method, it works.
Terpily now come with foam. How is it that someone writes with foreign income in my tax?
I suffer, you suffer!
In a year instead of 6% will make 26% - neither of which will tolerate)
And if 56% of all endure, but suffers can sleep peacefully. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:51
All clear, once it was possible to start with this
https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~0197430228d1982c42 - tatum.Fisher commented on March 19th 20 at 09:54
@Cecilia_Heathcote72if you just acknowledge that you do not understand the subject, then why give answers? - Lea commented on March 19th 20 at 09:57
@tatum.Fisher, well, let's begin, show your account.
I can show you their other account, and direct contracts)
@Lea -> certainly do not understand (like you), maybe I'm not a CPA and not a lawyer (though I am sure like you), I share my experience how I work.
Can you also ask why and you give answers if you do not understand the topic? - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 10:00
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, Hey, that's purely hypothetical. What will you do if someone from participating in the discussion upset you in the tax rat?
Your wise scheme in this case will work? - Eunice.Tow commented on March 19th 20 at 10:03
@Eunice.Tow, well, it's like the grandmother that all the neighbors complains to the police that they are drug addicts and prostitutes. Mechanism to prove anything - NO, nothing.
You don't need to report their income abroad, never did, and never will. And none of the patents I fucking do not need. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 10:06
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, you are wrong, the mechanism the evidence is there and it is quite simple - it grants itself Payoneer: https://www.payoneer.com/legal/privacy-policy/ turn to the section "How and Why We Share Your Information"

In response to legal process – to comply with the law, a judicial proceeding, subpoena, court order, or other legal process.

Payoneer at the court's request without resistance will merge all your data on the movement of funds from a scan of the passport. Another thing is that while prezentov was not because of uninteresting tax to such "trifles". There is a risk that at any time in the future interest may appear (for example, starting with the law on compulsory identification removes the currency in the ATM it will be easier to automate). - Rod commented on March 19th 20 at 10:09
@Rod, Yes, exactly, only one trick, no real data I wasn't sent there)))))
and the fact that I go there, nothing there at all not tested)))) - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 10:12
@Cecilia_Heathcote72, recently Payoneer started everyone asking for a passport scan. All new customers already during registration. Old when the card validity period ends, it is when ordering the following cards require. Regulatory requirements in the United States, too, are not in place. - Rod commented on March 19th 20 at 10:15
@Rod, Oh Yes, no problem will send 500 rubles is a professional manufacturer of scan of the passport. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 10:18
March 19th 20 at 08:32
Solution
Once the notice UpWork all cleared up. And good news (meaning in relation to the question from the title):

We are writing to let you know that Upwork will begin collecting Value Added Tax (VAT) from all freelancers and agencies who use Upwork in Russia on April 25, 2019.

No action is needed on your part. Upwork is now fully registered to collect the tax and forward it to the Russian government. Individual freelancer data will not be provided when Upwork remits VAT.

The last sentence clears that up: VAT will be transferred to the tax without specifying which freelancer how to make money. So to get to the additional taxes, the idea is that not easier than in the past/last year.
March 19th 20 at 08:34
You will discover, and without this, Banks began to block the accounts of freelancers
Oh, this Habr, has slipped to absolutely blatant yellow. Flashy title and quiet bunch in a puddle in the article. - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 08:37
@Savannah_Mohr, though the article and yellowish, but the fact is the Savings in the last year started to automatically look for and block suspicious transactions. It won't be long before others will join. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 08:40
@quinn.V, what's wrong with that? - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 08:43
@Savannah_Mohr, under current laws it will seriously strangle freelance. Or freelancers will have to register a legal entity and maintain records, or customers will have with each contractor to sign a contract and to act as the tax agent. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 08:46
@quinn.V,
freelancers will have to register a legal entity and keep records

This. Welcome to the rule of law. - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 08:49
@Savannah_Mohr, reasonable legal state by all means contributes to smazannost and small businesses. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 08:52
@quinn.V, that's what it does. The contract is the best guarantee that you won't screw the customer and what you to old age will receive a normal pension. Taxes are very good. - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 08:55
@Savannah_Mohr, first, I am 100% sure that I will not be retired, despite the fact that I worked all my life on the bloody enterprise, treaties, white tax deductions and other things. Is a legal state I and throw. Secondly, I'd rather he cares about the integrity of relationships with business partners. Thirdly, self-employed and small businesses pay taxes even if they do not tighten the screws. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 08:58
@Savannah_Mohr,
what's wrong with that?

Taxes are robbery. Some really needed state services, there are market alternatives. In a free market no one would have forced the Bank to mock clients and to block the account - Theo_Schinner commented on March 19th 20 at 09:01
@Theo_Schinner, @quinn.V, there can be a lot to justify the fact that the state itself is all steal, but whatever you say, but the trend is good. - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 09:04
@Savannah_Mohr, I'm not saying to avoid taxes is good. I say it's good to remove the requirements for registration and record keeping, and taxes to limit only income, at least for the self-employed. China this strategy has led to economic leadership in the world. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 09:07
@quinn.Vis China is the leader? Ek you shakes :) - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 09:10
@Savannah_Mohr, https://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies... - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 09:13
@quinn.V, it all depends on how you count.
By the way, funny how some people believe that the economic leadership of the mother (or the one where they want) for the country or its economic development as positively affect the lives of their own :) - Savannah_Mohr commented on March 19th 20 at 09:16
@Savannah_Mohr, first, I am a graduate in Finance how to count know. Secondly, I am often in China, I know many local, from the simple hard workers from Manchuria to tycoons from Hong Kong, a lot of them talking about life, work and other things. Yes, I would did not go there. Yes, the standard of living in North China, even by the standards of the Russian heartland is sad. But with the economy and business, everything is just fine. There is a lot to learn. - quinn.V commented on March 19th 20 at 09:19
immediately said no flash.
to anything good it will not. - Cecilia_Heathcote72 commented on March 19th 20 at 09:22
March 19th 20 at 08:36
It's better this way.
And then I contract on the record set, and the statement displays what I pay the Agency, and the taxes for them, I did not pay.
me this fact bothered not to ask.

Well now you can sleep peacefully)
March 19th 20 at 08:38
Everyone is so worried about taxes, forgetting where these taxes go(at whose apartment), some even retire remembered.)) In any case, do not agitate do not pay. And nice to see people who manage not to do it.

Above suggested a great option if you are rich, and you don't get millions - store on the same Ramaiah, and if a lot, then the patent, approx.
The worst option, which violates several articles of the law. I have a PI, it is easy and pleasant. And immediately relieved that it is not necessary to worry about violations of the law, what ever can emerge, survive, can without hemorrhoids to buy a car or apartment, and so on. - trever_Wilkinson8 commented on March 19th 20 at 08:41
March 19th 20 at 08:40
20% is not of the total.
And payment Upwork.
Well, they just shifted the costs of its business in Russia on the shoulders of Russian freelancers. OK so.
Eat, do not choke. - vanessa.Hami commented on March 19th 20 at 08:43
By the way 20% 24% they will take ? and 20% from 20% from 24% ? and when this cycle will stop ?

They just act according to the principle: Do because you can. - vanessa.Hami commented on March 19th 20 at 08:46
@vanessa.Hami,
Well, they just shifted the costs of its business in Russia on the shoulders of Russian freelancers. OK so.


Surprise:
All costs are always borne by the final consumer.
Always.

That's when you buy bread in shop, at your expense, and taxes of the bakery's costs for staff salaries and new equipment and a trip of the Director of a bakery in Hawaii and an apartment and a new car the mistress of the Director of the bakery.

Otherwise can not be.
In this sense, and commercial enterprises.

If the Director of the bakery had sold bread at cost of flour, wages and taxes etc would be paid at their own expense - this would be called a charity.

But in order to do so - it would have to be a billionaire. Sale of bread you and other people gradually turned it would be a millionaire. - Kelsie_Mertz commented on March 19th 20 at 08:49
March 19th 20 at 08:42
MDE... and have the same text? - yvette_Wate commented on March 19th 20 at 08:45

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