The stage of preparation for the development of the site. When to assess the budget and sign a contract?

Good day, colleagues.

Doing websites for a long time. Now came to the conclusion that I wanted to organize and structure the process of website development in terms of stages and to create a script statement to the project Manager. And all anything, if not for one question the answer to which I never found. Share your experience, who as solves a problem?

Design, layout, development, testing — it's all debugged, no questions. Question about the stage of negotiation. As a rule, always worked on the scheme — initial discussion and briefing, research, TK, prototypes and after that, the Deposit and in work. Here are the main problems that I see:

  1. Pretty hard to make a vehicle without prototypes, as we draw up detailed TOR with a description of units and functions. In fact, the prototype is a part of the vehicle and attached to it.
  2. It is also difficult to create a prototype of the website without prior study, in which we study the competitors and select the references allocated to useful functions and blocks.
  3. Take the advance before the study — possible, but strongly affects the probability of a successful sale. Presentation of the results of the analysis of the niche and existing technical specifications and prototypes we have — the key to successful sales.
  4. And finally, take an advance payment in the beginning is not an option, as the cost of the project may change during the negotiation phase.

What do you think about this? How do you solve the issue, if not a secret?
June 8th 19 at 17:30
6 answers
June 8th 19 at 17:32
1. Always give a potential customer your plan of action - this can be a hierarchical list of works with different relationship between them in the format of Excel spreadsheet with formulas and conditions (to change the display: background, color, etc.) in the cells.
2. Where the price for this type of work is unknown (will be known after executing the previous paragraphs works) - put a toe in the work.
3. Be sure to write the footnote under the table: "NOTE: work with a zero cost will not be executed."
4. You can then prepare a project GanttProject is not adding there work with zero labor costs and export to PDF.
5. Two documents: xls+pdf - as TKP is sent to the client for confirmation and attach to the contract.
6. If necessary, modify the contract by additional agreements for the execution of those stages, the cost of which became famous and which are necessary for the client.

The stages of development of the website: here.

In all other cases it makes no sense to work with those who do not want to work.
What if instead of TIC TAC toe draw amount for which the client does not expect? - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:35
interesting logic: if this amount does not know the developer to a certain point (stage), from where it can know the client?
Just need to work so that the quality of work was higher than the sum instead of the toe. And those who do not understand - you need to leave immediately (close the contract) between the stages of the work. - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:38
So the usual practice, you have certain stages and say that the development 100tysch the customer's eyes, how I was counting to 50? I seem rude at any stage desired - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:41
approx. Test (I, client, type):
Task: to create a web service for storing speech audio recordings, find similar among them and instance. Be able to separate the files from the clean speech from the rest. The sampling frequency and the bit width of the stream can be arbitrary.
Right now I want to know: how much for the whole project, I expect (rough estimate). - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:44
Here have unsubscribed to this topic, again based on the experience of development in this area.
But by your logic, I appreciate the establishment of TK and then it is not clear what amount, even if I don't understand it either I find someone who will do it based on the developed TOR and the amount will be impressive - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:47
it's only by your logic... initially not only TK but also part of the work, which can be evaluated immediately.
However, from the assessment test tasks You suddenly gone quiet: they themselves say one thing and do another...
The assessment will be or what's that logic work then? - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:50
Well, OK, from 50тр-200тр
The minimum level will immediately filter out those who are not willing to pay the price correction is possible in most approximately 30-40% - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:53
And to narrow the interval really?
I need to know and understand what to expect...
At least, within a 10-15тр. - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:56
So the contraction will occur as writing technical specifications - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:59
price adjustment is possible at most about 30-40%

So the contraction will occur as writing technical specifications

Now I do not understand: what are the challenges to me ) - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 18:02
June 8th 19 at 17:34
Once upon a time also had experience creating sites on the TOR and it was a pain - had to do a long-term estimate (which nobody guessed), spend a lot of time on TK, so as not to miss a beat, plugging the customer's mouth that TK when he a month later changed his opinion.... well, etc.
Since then, only the sprints at the beginning of the approximated complexity of the project to define the development tools and commit after N weeks to give MVP. And further, "any whim for Your money" - new features == new sprints == pay. The client to stop after the first sprint it makes no sense - he is interested in the finished product, and change by this extra spending. At the same time, and the client and the contractor have a chance not to continue the cooperation after a certain sprint if suddenly go bad relationship. The customer expects what he pays for and when to stop.
I'll clarify that lately I'm working in a big company and in my case "clients" - the stakeholders who work in the same company. But in this case they differ little from "autsorsinga" the client, because they are customers of the project, they have a certain budget and our cooperation looks exactly as I described above.
Thanks for the reply!

Agile is really a useful thing, but unfortunately, not when it comes to promotional websites or even online stores. In most cases, a typical customer (not associated with the world of digital), hearing "we work for two weeks, give the initial result, and then decide what's next" will send a contractor and will go to another Studio

But with the United States, where the hourly rate is the norm, this story works. With them in this respect more pleasant to deal with) - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:37
June 8th 19 at 17:36
based on experience to estimate the approximate number of hours to develop - multiply by their hourly rate to be adjusted according to the formula of Babuka and give this estimate.
Or to give an accurate estimate for typical projects based on previous works, and to alert customers that changes are NOT bugs, but the tastiness paid.
Problems with the preliminary assessment of the cost of no — called fork and from through rates.

Rather, the question is that we have a fairly large stage in the form of analysts, preparing requirements specifications and prototypes to do is actually free. In fact, the process of preparing consistently looks like this:

— Recording
— Analysis and preparation of the presentation of the study
— Presentation of the research (customer needs to confirm that we have correctly understood the audience and the project)
— Creating prototypes based on the research and Brief
— Approval of prototypes
— Preparation of specification on the basis of a brief, analysis and prototyping
— Approval of technical project

And it's all free. This is not a problem, just wondering maybe someone knows other options. - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:39
so include this in the price; how much time it takes, 20% for example. That's why I said to estimate the number of hours and times it takes time and is specific to the project, it is obvious this watch also needs to be considered.

Even if you have daily morning meetings are held with the team(if team work) - this is also the time to be included in the "estimate" - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:42
Thank you. The way we normally do, just the idea of inclusion in the estimate of points that have already been done before, a little confused. - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:45
so don't do them before payment :)
I understand you have a reputation/portfolio of some tried and tested? This is enough for pre-payment by the client - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:48
what you have there is the time it takes, 20% for example
analysis and design should take anywhere from 80 to 95% of the time
Coding 15-3% - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:51
Here's the catch, voiced by me in the initial message) is Not quite correct to make an estimate without TK and prototypes, because one small feature on a web page may sustain for a long hours of work. It is obvious that estimates (and therefore advance), followed by compilation of TK. In this paradox :) - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:54
and where did the design? or you have it in the design included? We now have something like this (when it's not about complex tools, and on the corporate website):

— 30% approval, and design (for the most part, wireframing)
— 30% drawing layouts and stylganov
— 30% layout and integration with the engine
— 10% testing and debugging - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:57
there is no paradox. valuation free for the customer. error assessment this is your risk. the cost of the assessment, even under unsigned agreements, of course, included in the total cost of an hour of work on signed) - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 18:00
in designing - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 18:03
ahahaha I think the source of 2 percent, but there is written about the fallacy of - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 18:06
June 8th 19 at 17:38
Take a fee for prototyping.
June 8th 19 at 17:40
1) From not delving very deeply on the basis of previous experience, you can tell the customer the approximate frame rates from ... to ... of the customer and if this range is satisfied, it is possible to continue the conversation. Some at this stage off, it vozdukhovody who have no money, and go through the market and just ask the price. Or ask the customer the project budget, the amount it calculates, then think only within the limits of the budget.
Ie the point is that at the very first stage to weed out all the pacifiers to avoid wasting your time on them.
2) For those who do not refused, to do the brief and the list of features or modules, and to consider more accurately the price tag. At this stage you can negotiate with the customer Price +/- 10% for unforeseen situations. Usually sensible customers understand that the project be assessed at the start up to cents is impossible. We can draw a contract and ask for payment.
3) And when everything will be detail painted, then we can look at, and if I mistake not in their favor, either talk to the customer and change the price (additional agreement to the contract), or reject (in the contract it is necessary to score the option for retreat).

For the customer everything should be transparent and preferably not just call him up and describe in detail the calculation that is done and how much it costs. So the customer can be sure that he was not deceived, and if you mind the money, the individual points he can not do.
June 8th 19 at 17:42
All that wasted time must be paid if payment of the prelude creates the feeling that the ordering of representations, as already said include this watch cost after the prelude. For common tasks this is clearly not the problem.
As one of interesting options at the moment of the development of TK, analysis, prototypes etc to sign documents stating that the customer will work with You and if he suddenly decided to retire, then point to the paper. It is thus possible to reinforce the feeling that if there is failure then there will be big losses. Well, then when moved beyond the paid (forward or included to read as distributed, in a different part of the job) foreplay, on the basis of paper 1 passes to the business or to sign a second paper that everything is OK and to take payment.Прелюдия - lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:45
the quote "the Prelude is the introduction to any musical composition or a small separate piece" - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:48

- lois.Gusikowski11 commented on June 8th 19 at 17:51
low You my bow - Kyleigh_Hills commented on June 8th 19 at 17:54

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